I've been working on a plugin called "po", that adds support for multi-lingual wikis,
translated with gettext, using po4a.
More information:
- It can be found in my "po" branch:
git clone git://gaffer.ptitcanardnoir.org/ikiwiki.git
- It is self-contained, i.e. it does not modify ikiwiki core at all.
- It is documented (including TODO and plans for next work steps) in
doc/plugins/po.mdwn, which can be found in the same branch.
- No public demo site is available so far, I'm working on this.
My plan is to get this plugin clean enough to be included in ikiwiki.
The current version is a proof-of-concept, mature enough for me to dare submitting it here,
but I'm prepared to hear various helpful remarks, and to rewrite parts of it as needed.
Any thoughts on this?
Well, I think it's pretty stunning what you've done here. Seems very
complete and well thought out. I have not read the code in great detail
yet.
Just using po files is an approach I've never seen tried with a wiki. I
suspect it will work better for some wikis than others. For wikis that
just want translations that match the master language as closely as
possible and don't wander off and diverge, it seems perfect. (But what happens
if someone edits the Discussion page of a translated page?)
Please keep me posted, when you get closer to having all issues solved
and ready for merging I can do a review and hopefully help with the
security items you listed. --[[Joey]]
Thanks a lot for your quick review, it's reassuring to hear such nice words
from you. I did not want to design and write a full translation system, when
tools such as gettext/po4a already have all the needed functionality, for cases
where the master/slave languages paradigm fits.
Integrating these tools into ikiwiki plugin system was a pleasure.
I'll tell you when I'm ready for merging, but in the meantime,
I'd like you to review the changes I did to the core (3 added hooks).
Can you please do this? If not, I'll go on and hope I'm not going to far in
the wrong direction.
Sure.. I'm not completly happy with any of the hooks since they're very
special purpose, and also since run_hooks is not the best interface
for a hook that modifies a variable, where only the last hook run will
actually do anything. It might be better to just wrap
targetpage, bestlink, and beautify_urlpath. But, I noticed
the other day that such wrappers around exported functions are only visible by
plugins loaded after the plugin that defines them.
Update: Take a look at the new "Function overriding" section of
[[plugins/write]]. I think you can just inject wrappers about a few ikiwiki
functions, rather than adding hooks. The inject function is pretty
insane^Wlow level, but seems to work great. --[[Joey]]
Thanks a lot, it seems to be a nice interface for what I was trying to achieve.
I may be forced to wait two long weeks before I have a chance to confirm
this. Stay tuned. --[[intrigeri]]
I've updated the plugin to use inject. It is now fully self-contained,
and does not modify the core anymore. --[[intrigeri]]
The Discussion pages issue is something I am not sure about yet. But I will
probably decide that "slave" pages, being only translations, don't deserve
a discussion page: the discussion should happen in the language in which the
pages are written for real, which is the "master" one. --[[intrigeri]]
I think that's a good decision, you don't want to translate discussion,
and if the discussion page turns out multilingual, well, se la vi. ;-)
Relatedly, what happens if a translated page has a broken link, and you
click on it to edit it? Seems you'd first have to create a master page
and could only then translate it, right? I wonder if this will be clear
though to the user.
Right: a broken link points to the URL that allows to create
a page that can either be a new master page or a non-translatable
page, depending on po_translatable_pages value. The best
solution I can thing of is to use [[plugins/edittemplate]] to
insert something like "Warning: this is a master page, that must
be written in $MASTER_LANGUAGE" into newly created master pages,
and maybe another warning message on newly created
non-translatable pages. It seems quite doable to me, but in order
to avoid breaking existing functionality, it implies to hack a bit
[[plugins/edittemplate]] so that multiple templates can be
inserted at page creation time. [[--intrigeri]]
I implemented such a warning using the formbuilder_setup hook.
--[[intrigeri]]
And also, is there any way to start a translation of a page into a new
lanauge using the web interface?
When a new language is added to po_slave_languages, a rebuild is
triggered, and all missing PO files are created and checked into
VCS. An unpriviledged wiki user can not add a new language to
po_slave_languages, though. One could think of adding the needed
interface to translate a page into a yet-unsupported slave
language, and this would automagically add this new language to
po_slave_languages. It would probably be useful in some
usecases, but I'm not comfortable with letting unpriviledged wiki
users change the wiki configuration as a side effect of their
actions; if this were to be implemented, special care would be
needed. [[--intrigeri]]
Actually I meant into any of the currently supported languages.
I guess that if the template modification is made, it will list those
languages on the page, and if a translation to a language is missing,
the link will allow creating it?
Any translation page always exist for every supported slave
language, even if no string at all have been translated yet.
This implies the po plugin is especially friendly to people who
prefer reading in their native language if available, but don't
mind reading in English else.
While I'm at it, there is a remaining issue that needs to be
sorted out: how painful it could be for non-English speakers
(assuming the master language is English) to be perfectly able
to navigate between translation pages supposed to be written in
their own language, when their translation level is most
often low.
(It is currently easy to display this status on the translation
page itself, but then it's too late, and how frustrating to load
a page just to realize it's actually not translated enough for
you. The "other languages" loop also allows displaying this
information, but it is generally not the primary
navigation tool.)
IMHO, this is actually a social problem (i.e. it's no use adding
a language to the supported slave ones if you don't have the
manpower to actually do the translations), that can't be fully
solved by technical solutions, but I can think of some hacks
that would limit the negative impact: a given translation's
status (currently = percent translated) could be displayed next
to the link that leads to it; a color code could as well be used
("just" a matter of adding a CSS id or class to the links,
depending on this variable). As there is already work to be done
to have the links text generation more customizable through
plugins, I could do both at the same time if we consider this
matter to be important enough. --[[intrigeri]]
The translation status in links is now implemented in my
pobranch. It requires my meta branch changes to
work, though. I consider the latter to be mature enough to
be merged. --[[intrigeri]]
FWIW, I'm tracking your po branch in ikiwiki master git in the po
branch. One thing I'd like to try in there is setting up a translated
basewiki, which seems like it should be pretty easy to do, and would be
a great demo! --[[Joey]]
I've merged your changes into my own branch, and made great
progress on the various todo items. Please note my repository
location has changed a few days ago, my user page was updated
accordingly, but I forgot to update this page at the same time.
Hoping it's not too complicated to relocated an existing remote...
(never done that, I'm a Git beginner as well as a Perl
newbie) --[[intrigeri]]
Just a matter of editing .git/config, thanks for the heads up.
Joey, please have a look at my branch, your help would be really
welcome for the security research, as I'm almost done with what
I am able to do myself in this area. --[[intrigeri]]
I came up with a patch for the WrapI18N issue --[[Joey]]
I've set this plugin development aside for a while. I will be back and
finish it at some point in the first quarter of 2009. --[[intrigeri]]
Abstract: Joey, please have a look at my po and meta branches.
Detailed progress report:
- it seems the po branch in your repository has not been tracking my
own po branch for two months. any config issue?
- all the plugin's todo items have been completed, robustness tests
done
- I've finished the detailed security audit, and the fix for po4a
bugs has entered upstream CVS last week
- I've merged your new
checkcontent hook with the cansave hook
I previously introduced in my own branch; blogspam plugin updated
accordingly
- the rename hook changes we discussed elsewhere are also part of my
branch
- I've introduced two new hooks (
canremove and canrename), not
a big deal; IMHO, they extend quite logically the plugin interface
- as highlighted on [[bugs/pagetitle_function_does_not_respect_meta_titles]],
my
meta branch contains a new feature that is really useful in a
translatable wiki
As a conclusion, I'm feeling that my branches are ready to be
merged; only thing missing, I guess, are a bit of discussion and
subsequent adjustments.
--[[intrigeri]]
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